"Guardians of Ilkley Moor" On Look North

mikki wrote:I am fed-up of hearing the Stanza Stones justification for the crap that they are going to carve on the stones on the moors.

The comparison between pre-historic carvings, Victorian carvings & the crap that they are going to carve on the moors, just goes to show how uneducated these people are.

Did Pre-historic folk have pen & paper to doodle on? did they have OS maps to find their way around?

And as for this retarded idea of "tradition" of graffiti in Victorian times being carved on the moors - well, how many of the Victorians in Ilkley could even read or write? And the vast majority of the Victorians didn't even known about the pre-historic carvings, as they were only first noticed by a small group of educated enthusiasts from late-1860's onwards - and the people who did 'graffiti' carvings then, were oblivious of the older prehistoric carved stones, which were only just being discovered. They simply 'did not know' about such things.

Now today's Stanza Stones bunch ..... well, what can I say. They are supposed to be an educated bunch - but obviously not. Unless they are using their own ignorance to be deliberately immoral.

Mikki

My problem with the people forcing stone memorials on the Moors and beyond is the lack of respect for history of the region. There have been some great books written recording these stone markings, and Yorkshire along with Northumberland are two regions singled out for seeing them by experts who have valued their presence.


The tragedy is that while singling the region out for this vandalism, with poor if any rationale for supporting the project, the whole region loses the integrity of its marvelous and valuable heritage. The people of Ilkley who support adding debris and hubris to the moors obviously fail to understand how much prehistoric value there is under their noses.

Sadly, once the landscape is vandalised further by others who will follow suit, this heritage will fall into obscurity and future generations will be denied the capacity to decode the messages left by ancestors when or if new insights come to light.

Ilkley seems more concerned with establishing itself as a literary capital, preferring to ignore the fact that most tourists who would visit, do so because of its historic importance.

Pity we couldn't cobble a questionnaire together to go out and get a cross section of responses from those visiting the lit festival this month, and compare that to one delivered on the moors during the summer when most tourists are up there. Or we could have counted how many lit visitors actually EVER go up on the moors?

Hiya Tricia!

tricia wrote:...Pity we couldn't cobble a questionnaire together to go out and get a cross section of responses from those visiting the lit festival this month, and compare that to one delivered on the moors during the summer when most tourists are up there. Or we could have counted how many lit visitors actually EVER go up on the moors?

I think we could easily cobble a simple questionaire together, asking "Do You think it's good idea, bad idea, don't care" regarding what Stanza Stones are up to, and ask people at Cow & Calf, 12 Apostles or Swastika Stone. I know they haven't done any of this (it'd mean they'd have to get their feet wet) - and at least if we did this, we'd be getting the views of the people who go on the moors, who enjoy the moors. NOT just some halfwit beaurocrats who care little about the hills, and rarely engage with them. So yeah...a simply-worded questionaire would be a good idea. Then we can sit up & around the Apostles for the day. I'd be up for it!

Paulus wrote:Hiya Tricia!

tricia wrote:...Pity we couldn't cobble a questionnaire together to go out and get a cross section of responses from those visiting the lit festival this month, and compare that to one delivered on the moors during the summer when most tourists are up there. Or we could have counted how many lit visitors actually EVER go up on the moors?

I think we could easily cobble a simple questionaire together, asking "Do You think it's good idea, bad idea, don't care" regarding what Stanza Stones are up to, and ask people at Cow & Calf, 12 Apostles or Swastika Stone. I know they haven't done any of this (it'd mean they'd have to get their feet wet) - and at least if we did this, we'd be getting the views of the people who go on the moors, who enjoy the moors. NOT just some halfwit beaurocrats who care little about the hills, and rarely engage with them. So yeah...a simply-worded questionaire would be a good idea. Then we can sit up & around the Apostles for the day. I'd be up for it!

Me too if I had the time, though I expect any result would be spurned by those still in denial about the power of wrath incurred by gratutious stone carving.

The poor mites haven't a clue about the subtle karmic return they invoke. Clearly while saying how ''innovative'' and ''exciting'' and ''progressive'' this venture is, they show vast ignorance of the furore created by a similar introduction of a stone at Carlisle.

If carving on a stone is so exciting how come none of em know about this one? Just goes to show how much they need to be educated about these things. Cumbrians are DESPERATE to get rid of theirs and are willing to pay millions of pounds to do so.

Here's a little background taken from BBC website about how these stone carvings are known to create ''spiritual violence'' as one clergyman put it, even a ''blessing'' added to the stone cannot undo the devastation....:-

City is 'cursed' by ancient stone

The stone is inscribed with a 16th Century curse
A stone commissioned to mark the millennium may be destroyed after being blamed for bringing misfortunes of "biblical proportions" to a city.
Since the Cursing Stone was placed in Carlisle, the city has suffered floods, foot-and-mouth disease, job losses and a goal famine for the football team.

The 14-tonne granite artwork is carved with a 1,069-word 16th Century curse.

Now city councillor Jim Tootle wants the stone destroyed and has tabled a motion to discuss it on 8 March.

The stone, which stands between the castle and the museum, is inscribed with a curse first invoked by the Archbishop of Glasgow in 1525...


Mr Tootle said: "Various Christian groups have approached me [saying]

"We have had floods, pestilence, a great big fire in the city - it is of biblical proportions."

Council leader Mike Mitchelson said: "We're obliged to address his comments, but estimate that it will cost the council several thousands of pounds to remove the stone.


The city council also said local Christian groups, including the Bishop of Carlisle, were consulted and were in agreement with the Cursing Stone and a blessing was included within the artwork. ''

Other comments about this project include:-

''Carving into a stone boulder is provocative and insensitive''

It's an occult ritual to read a curse while circling the stone....!!'' Dunbar's curse

AN “evil” 16th-century curse inscribed on a giant stone in Cumbria – the centrepiece of a £6.7 million millennium exhibition – is to be “exorcised” by an archbishop after clergy complained that it generated “spiritual violence”.

Perhaps deadagaindave could bring out some Pagans to exorcise the stones on Ilkley Moor? If a poem carved in granite can cause so much damage, then think what a poem carved into prehistory will do...

Interesting article Tricia. I have heard about these cursed stones in various places before, if it is the stone that's causing all the trouble ?

Sunbright57 wrote:Interesting article Tricia. I have heard about these cursed stones in various places before, if it is the stone that's causing all the trouble ?

Hello Sunbright. Yes it is the stone that is very controversial. The poem was a curse offered up by the archbishop in the 16 century when 'rieves' were felt to be a plague on the town for various thieving and other unwanted activities. A blessing was given to the stone but doesn't seem to have worked, but the pagan symbol that was found alongside the poem was never inscribed upon the stone, and this too caused a furore. Seems carvings on stones is controversial full stop.

While we would hope that Ilkley isn't cursed as a result of their own provocative and insenstive act, when even the clergy are saying such things generate spiritual violence we do have to respect their understanding. And it does seem spiritual unrest is begining to affect the town due to all the controversy around the stone project already doesn't it? Perhaps we should get the exorcists in asap?

Diabolical people who wantonly destroy nature, curse themselves, tricia. The curse damns them for as long as the Earth exists, and beyond. As the poisonous infection of arrogant disregard for the handiwork of the forces of creation, rots their minds and stains and besmirches what little they have in the way of soul. Their contamination exponentially infects society, as they recklessly promote the message that it is fine to engage in such a reckless way; unnecessarily desecrating the land for no other reason than shallow, showy, pride. I pity them. I pity their offspring tainted by their calumny, and I pity the communities that they pollute with their outrageous ideas. No ceremony of enablement is necessary where nature is concerned. If an enraged and offended Mighty Nature, somehow reacts to it's tarnishment, it will need no encouragement, and no power on Earth will prevent it.

I agree with diabolical as the best word to describe what is being done Dave.

I do think we could go up to the carving site when under operation to deliver our protest as well so the carver knows it is not welcome at all so she thinks twice before agreeing to such vandalism again. A peaceful protest to say what we know to be true is all it takes and does need to be done.

Placards would say it best.

The people doing the carving are women tricia, so I think women would be the best people to protest at where they are doing it. I know a few ladies from the pagan community are quite distressed at the idea of despoiling nature unnecessarily, and they would be the best option to politely challenge those engaged in the carving. Some of the lasses I saw at Thornborough, would be useful if the carvers need any fetching and carrying done as well. A couple of them looked more than capable, of dragging the boulder clean out of the ground and heaving it right over the bloody moor into Airedale. If they were to ask me about the morality of my actions, I think I'd be inclined to to profer fulsome explanations, rapidly.
So let's leave them, to the Sisterhood.

deadagaindave wrote:The people doing the carving are women tricia, so I think women would be the best people to protest at where they are doing it. I know a few ladies from the pagan community are quite distressed at the idea of despoiling nature unnecessarily, and they would be the best option to politely challenge those engaged in the carving. Some of the lasses I saw at Thornborough, would be useful if the carvers need any fetching and carrying done as well. A couple of them looked more than capable, of dragging the boulder clean out of the ground and heaving it right over the bloody moor into Airedale. If they were to ask me about the morality of my actions, I think I'd be inclined to to profer fulsome explanations, rapidly.
So let's leave them, to the Sisterhood.

I read that there is going to be a young man helping as well? Perhaps they have taken on board my complaint about there not being a Yorkshireman (or woman) asked to do the carving when the funding submission duplicitously declared the project was to celebrate Yorkshire skills?

Sounds like the sisterhood should be called in if they're that strong I don't think there is a law against boulder throwing so a judge might have a problem finding what to throw at em if they did it However it would be nice to offer my support in cheering them on, so do let me know when this event is planned.....in private of course, wouldn't want any lurkers knowing wot is goin on of course......

Anyway I'm thinkin of setting off across Grassington Moors this weekend starting at Yarnbury, anyone interested?

tricia wrote:

deadagaindave wrote:The people doing the carving are women tricia, so I think women would be the best people to protest at where they are doing it. I know a few ladies from the pagan community are quite distressed at the idea of despoiling nature unnecessarily, and they would be the best option to politely challenge those engaged in the carving. Some of the lasses I saw at Thornborough, would be useful if the carvers need any fetching and carrying done as well. A couple of them looked more than capable, of dragging the boulder clean out of the ground and heaving it right over the bloody moor into Airedale. If they were to ask me about the morality of my actions, I think I'd be inclined to to profer fulsome explanations, rapidly.
So let's leave them, to the Sisterhood.

I read that there is going to be a young man helping as well? Perhaps they have taken on board my complaint about there not being a Yorkshireman (or woman) asked to do the carving when the funding submission duplicitously declared the project was to celebrate Yorkshire skills?

Sounds like the sisterhood should be called in if they're that strong I don't think there is a law against boulder throwing so a judge might have a problem finding what to throw at em if they did it However it would be nice to offer my support in cheering them on, so do let me know when this event is planned.....in private of course, wouldn't want any lurkers knowing wot is goin on of course......

Anyway I'm thinkin of setting off across Grassington Moors this weekend starting at Yarnbury, anyone interested?

Hi Tricia - You are correct. The stonemason has an apprentice that is a male that has been working with her since they started on this vandalism spree.

Hope your ok

Mikki xx

Hi Mikki
Wonder if he's from Cumbria as well then?
Wot No skilled craftsmen in Yorkshire?

Maybe that's what the rock carvings left by prehistoric Yorkshireman are all about--- letting us know they'd do a bit of signing for us locally before the talent ran out come 2011

Can't do Wednesday I'm afraid. Howzabout next weekend then? Would Saturday be alright?

Hi Paulus, are you still going to Pule Hill tommorow?

laughingball wrote:Hi Paulus, are you still going to Pule Hill tommorow?

Yep! We're gonna be at Marsden train station at 10.50am. From there we'll have to walk up to Pule Hill, which I'm assuming will take us about an hour. Do you wanna meet us at the train station, or on top o't'hill? If anyone else fancies going, hope to see y' there!

Paulus wrote:
Yep! We're gonna be at Marsden train station at 10.50am. From there we'll have to walk up to Pule Hill, which I'm assuming will take us about an hour. Do you wanna meet us at the train station, or on top o't'hill? If anyone else fancies going, hope to see y' there!

I'm going to drive and am happy to give you or anyone else a lift if you like?
Its about 2 minutes in car from station to Pule Hill of a fairly steep climb on foot.
If you prefer to walk up, I'll meet you on the hill.

laughingball wrote:I'm going to drive and am happy to give you or anyone else a lift if you like?
Its about 2 minutes in car from station to Pule Hill of a fairly steep climb on foot.
If you prefer to walk up, I'll meet you on the hill.

If you could meet us at the train station, that'd be much appreciated! We'll wait at the train-station car-park (I assume there is one?) I'll have mi usual ponytail and blue rucksack on mi back.

Paulus wrote:

laughingball wrote:I'm going to drive and am happy to give you or anyone else a lift if you like?
Its about 2 minutes in car from station to Pule Hill of a fairly steep climb on foot.
If you prefer to walk up, I'll meet you on the hill.

If you could meet us at the train station, that'd be much appreciated! We'll wait at the train-station car-park (I assume there is one?) I'll have mi usual ponytail and blue rucksack on mi back.

No problem - I'll see you at Marsden Station at 10.50 then. I'll be in a gold coloured rover.

laughingball wrote:No problem - I'll see you at Marsden Station at 10.50 then. I'll be in a gold coloured rover.

Spot on! See y' tomorrow!

laughingball wrote:

Paulus wrote:

laughingball wrote:I'm going to drive and am happy to give you or anyone else a lift if you like?
Its about 2 minutes in car from station to Pule Hill of a fairly steep climb on foot.
If you prefer to walk up, I'll meet you on the hill.

If you could meet us at the train station, that'd be much appreciated! We'll wait at the train-station car-park (I assume there is one?) I'll have mi usual ponytail and blue rucksack on mi back.

No problem - I'll see you at Marsden Station at 10.50 then. I'll be in a gold coloured rover.

Hi Laughingball - It was great to meet you and I had a great day, many thanks.
You're more than welcome to join us on any of our walks/outings that we have.


Mikki, I am not a man, honestly

mikki wrote:

Hi Laughingball - It was great to meet you and I had a great day, many thanks.
You're more than welcome to join us on any of our walks/outings that we have.


Mikki, I am not a man, honestly

Thanks Mikki (and Mr Paulus) I had a great day too! Hope you got back alright - thought you might have gone back and spent the night in Pule Hill rocks!

I now believe you're female Mikki - I was convinced you were a certain somebody else...

Will deffo like to join you's on more walks/outings! Cheers

laughingball wrote:

mikki wrote:

Hi Laughingball - It was great to meet you and I had a great day, many thanks.
You're more than welcome to join us on any of our walks/outings that we have.


Mikki, I am not a man, honestly

Thanks Mikki (and Mr Paulus) I had a great day too! Hope you got back alright - thought you might have gone back and spent the night in Pule Hill rocks!

I now believe you're female Mikki - I was convinced you were a certain somebody else...

Will deffo like to join you's on more walks/outings! Cheers

Hiya!
It didn't take us long to get home. There wasn't much of a wait between trains.

We will probably stay overnight next time we are over there - some of them hills are tempting.

Keep an eye out on the forum for future outings & you're welcome to come along.

Mikki x

Hi Ben!

Groovy day yesterday - and damn good meeting up at last! If I'd have done mi homework properly, we could have checked out a seemingly lost 'Lady's Well' not far from where you first parked-up below Pule Hill. I'll sort the grid-refs out & send 'em over, just in case you're in that neck o' the woods again soon.

laughingball wrote:...I now believe you're female Mikki - I was convinced you were a certain somebody else...

I've just gotta tell the Muddy one you thought he was a woman! Awesome!!!

Paulus wrote:Hi Ben!

Groovy day yesterday - and damn good meeting up at last! If I'd have done mi homework properly, we could have checked out a seemingly lost 'Lady's Well' not far from where you first parked-up below Pule Hill. I'll sort the grid-refs out & send 'em over, just in case you're in that neck o' the woods again soon.

laughingball wrote:...I now believe you're female Mikki - I was convinced you were a certain somebody else...

I've just gotta tell the Muddy one you thought he was a woman! Awesome!!!

Shhhhh - let the conspiracy theories continue...

Paulus wrote:Hi Ben!

Groovy day yesterday - and damn good meeting up at last! If I'd have done mi homework properly, we could have checked out a seemingly lost 'Lady's Well' not far from where you first parked-up below Pule Hill. I'll sort the grid-refs out & send 'em over, just in case you're in that neck o' the woods again soon.

Oh yeah please do - that be great I could see if I can find it!

laughingball wrote:

Paulus wrote:Hi Ben!

Groovy day yesterday - and damn good meeting up at last! If I'd have done mi homework properly, we could have checked out a seemingly lost 'Lady's Well' not far from where you first parked-up below Pule Hill. I'll sort the grid-refs out & send 'em over, just in case you're in that neck o' the woods again soon.

Oh yeah please do - that be great I could see if I can find it!

I've just emailed it. Let us know if you find owt!

Paulus wrote:

laughingball wrote:

Paulus wrote:Hi Ben!

Groovy day yesterday - and damn good meeting up at last! If I'd have done mi homework properly, we could have checked out a seemingly lost 'Lady's Well' not far from where you first parked-up below Pule Hill. I'll sort the grid-refs out & send 'em over, just in case you're in that neck o' the woods again soon.

Oh yeah please do - that be great I could see if I can find it!

I've just emailed it. Let us know if you find owt!

Cheers Paul I try and find it and let you know. Looking at its location I've just realised its somewhere I'm quite familiar with and quite a pretty spot. I'll see if I can root it out with a visit. I've never heard of the well - is it something you think may be of interest?

Looking around the Saddleworth area on the maps there are quite a number of pretty intriguing place names I should investigate... I'll keep you posted.

Ben