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Archaeology, folklore & myth of Britain's pre-christian sites & heritage: stone circles, holy wells, maypoles, tombs, archaic cosmologies and human consciousness. Everyone welcome - even Southerners!


    The Catlow Archaeological finds.

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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Sunbright57 on Sun May 29, 2011 7:49 am

    The following is taken from an excellent piece of work by Mr H Hindle, Colne historian, from his 'Pre-History - Colne & Surrounding Areas' published in the Pennine Magazine in the late 1970s-early 1980s. To quote Mr Hindle "A bronze-Age dagger or spearhead was found in 1845 about two and a half feet from the surface in a field about halfway between Burnley and Colne in the Catlow district. The dagger had a narrowed tange with a rivet hole and was just over 9 inches in length, the tange was three inches long and at its greatest width the dagger measured one and a half inches". The spear's collar was not found. It seems this spear was, in fact, found underneath the forecourt of Catlow Row as those cottages were being built in that very same year. Mr Hindle goes on to say "tanged daggers are extremely rare, being known chiefly from the Arreton Down deposit, Isle of Wight".

    Drawing of the Catlow Bronze-Age spear by J.Wilcock.


    Then the author goes on to explain the finds at Catlow. "The most interesting discovery, a burial site, was made at Catlow stone quarry in March 1854" by Captain Sagar's workmen. Hindle goes on to say that "two or three earthenware urns were met with a little below the surface when clearing earth for the flagstone rock". "The urns [probably collared Pennine type] were perfect and measured 14 inches in depth and 9 inches in diameter at the mouth, with considerable swelling at the centres". He says "they are formed of very course earthenware unglazed and very slighly baked". "The urns contained calcined bones, pieces of charcoal, and soft dark earth". "Most of the bones, supposedly human, are mixed with others belonging to a horse and some lesser animals". Only one of the urns survived due to rough handling by the quarry workers at Catlow who damaged the urns with their picks; one of these urns was Middle Bronze-Age in date, the other two were considered to be food vessels. Hindle says that "a rude piece of flint was found amongst the bones, but from its decayed state, it is not easy to determine whether it had been an arrowhead". "Two ivory bodkins were found at the same time; they were exceedingly friable, either from age or having been subjected to the action of a fire before being deposited into the urns".

    In more recent times, probably 1954, another urn was dug up from beneath the stone forecourt at the front of Catlow Row. This was considered to be very similar to those found at Catlow quarry close by. This urn remains buried where it was found (in situ).


    Last edited by Sunbright57 on Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:01 pm; edited 11 times in total

    Viking Orm

    Join date : 2011-05-29

    Catlow

    Post  Viking Orm on Sun May 29, 2011 10:26 am

    Hi...Could you please tell me more about the confusion over the true of the urns location being either in the quarry or behind Catlow Row. If the latter is true then it would corroborate a burial urn having been found under the cobbles and under a flagstone at the front of the cottages in the 1950s when workmen, one of who lived in one of the cottages were digging. Only a few weeks ago a bronze axe head and flint scrapers were found nearby to these very cottages by people that I know, so it would be quite interesting to know about the true site of the Bronze Age burials. Thankyou
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    The Catlow Archaeological Finds

    Post  Sunbright57 on Sun May 29, 2011 10:46 am

    I'm not too certain myself Viking, but I was told by a friend of mine, Peter Rutkowski, of Catlow Row that his mother remembered that an urn was dug up from below the flagstones at Catlow Row. So whether this was a different urn to that seen by Mr Hindle, I don't know - I suspect it is a more recent find than the ones described by Hindle - given the dates involved.
    study


    Last edited by Sunbright57 on Mon May 30, 2011 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  lowergate on Mon May 30, 2011 1:00 am

    Hi Viking Orm,

    Only a few weeks ago a bronze axe head and flint scrapers were found nearby to these very cottages by people that I know, so it would be quite interesting to know about the true site of the Bronze Age burials."
    "

    Great find Orm - can you put up details on this very important find (and the urn found under the cobbles).

    The Catlow/Marsden/Burnley area has been sadly neglected by archo's for more than 30 years to my knowledge. It would do us all well to make a concentrated study of this neglected region (I myself have not been well for some months now - but I am up and almost running again & fully intend to 'dig out' my notes & files on this area that have not seen the light of day since the 1980's).

    Best

    john

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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    The Catlow Archaeological Finds

    Post  Sunbright57 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:25 am

    Hi, have edited/ up-dated the topic as some new and invaluable information has been given to me by Mr Rutkowski of Catlow regarding the urns and spear found at Catlow. Thank you Peter. Very Happy

    Viking Orm

    Join date : 2011-05-29

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Viking Orm on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:56 pm

    Sunbright57 wrote:Hi, have edited/ up-dated the topic as some new and invaluable information has been given to me by Mr Rutkowski of Catlow regarding the urns and spear found at Catlow. Thank you Peter. Very Happy

    Hi Sunbright. Being fairly local I was wondering if you could possibly tell me of anything you may know, regarding the rumours that there once stood a stone circle on the edge of what is now Ringstone Crescent Nelson. Allegedly and according to one or two local people that seem to be in the know, on the site of what is now number 56 a bungalow, once stood the `circle`. I have checked the 1848 Mario map right up until 1930, and there it is, right bang on, right up until I presume that it was removed a year or two later, when infact Ringstone Crescent was then built.
    If this is indeed the case, then where are the records relating to this, and more to the point why has it been kept so low profile. Looking at the 48 map, the spring or water that starts its life on Knave hill home of Waltons Monument (approx 1 mile East from the `circle`) then goes on and past Southfield lane and underneath and past the ancient Pinfold farm and down towards what was a large meadow, to what is marked `Fountain` (Reservoir on later maps). At this point either a track or continuation of the water doglegs right in a completely straight line and directly towards the `Circle`.
    Another point to make is that a few yards away, directly at the back of the `circle` is what appears to be a perfect semi circlular shaped wooded area, that could possibly be related. This wooded area looks to be either a mound or a very large hole of some description (With no markings on any maps relating this as an old disused quarry) and is bordered directly on the right hand side by an ancient track. This is the very same ancient trackway that runs from Burnley through Little Toms farm near the bottom of Briercliffe and over Marsden Heights, then down Kippax or Scholefield lane, toward the saxon named and ancient hamlet of Scholefield. From here it carries on across what is now the reservoir of Walverden water, near to the now demolished De Lacy Walk Mill. Past the site of the mill and up towards Southfield farm and then carrying on this ancient trackway through to Townhouse farm, then through what are now semi detached houses at the corner of Barkerhouse rd and through a few yards to the `circle`. Maybe it should be noted that the track then carries on a its northward route past this spot, and leads directly to historical Marsden Hall.
    If you or anyone has any information at all it would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou for your time...Viking
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Sunbright57 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:55 am

    Umm, very interesting Viking Orm. I used to live on Townhouse Road and in the back of our garden (no 73) there were some mounds. But, I was always told that these mounds were from a Victorian poorhouse. I remember some very large stones being unearthed from the back gardens, one had an inscription. Also I was told by an elderly gentlemen that an inscribed stone was found on the track/path that ran along the top of the bank opposite our house (before Linkside Avenue was built). The path, perhaps the same one that you mention, ran from Manknowles cottages to Lower Townhouse farm (where the golf course is now). I have always wondered why Ringstone Crescent was so named, thinking that it was named for the former stone circle at Ringstone Hill, Catlow. I think there are many things we don't, and never will, know anything about that have long since gone - only the name remains. But thanks for letting me know about this. I will have a walk up there when the weather is better, and see what else I can find out. Best wishes, Ray.

    Viking Orm

    Join date : 2011-05-29

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Viking Orm on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:50 am

    Hi again,

    Some quite interesting comments you have made there Sunbright. It all sounds very interesting and with a bit of luck could maybe lead to more information. Ive just taken another look at the Mario map and quite clearly your old house at No 73 Townhouse road sits literally 30 to 40 yards inbetween both the alleged stone circle and the semi circular mound or ditch. Also of note is the dogleg from the `Fountain` on the 1848 map that leads directly to the `circle`, cuts right through what is now Deerstone road. Interesting to say the least.

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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Sunbright57 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:50 am

    Viking Orm, do you have a photo or scan of that 1848 Mario map as I don't have it. Could you, perhaps, put it on here. Or, if not I could let you have my e-mail address for you to send it to me. Ray.

    Viking Orm

    Join date : 2011-05-29

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Viking Orm on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:51 am

    Hi Ray...Im not really sure how to send you a copy, although Im sure that if you type in Mario maps on your google bar it will take you straight to the site. When you get there you will have a choice of early maps from either 1848 and 1894 or you can use overhead photos from the 1940s and 1960s, together with either a modern OS map or google aerial map. You can use these together at the same time to find the precise spots that you are looking for. Hence the `circle` in the Garden of No 56 Ringstone Crescent. Good luck.
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 59
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: The Catlow Archaeological finds.

    Post  Sunbright57 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:58 pm

    Okay, I will have a look at those maps. Yes, I see what you mean the map once you have it doesn't save. I managed to look at the 1950s black and white map of Townhouse Road. I wondered whether your "red dot" is on house no 77 rather than 73. But I can see the track opposite running along the edge of the bank north to Manknowles cottages on then south towards Lower Townhouse. Its a pity the map is a bit blured.sunny

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