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    The Celtic Walls

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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    The Celtic Walls

    Post  QDanT on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am

    Well it's not "rock art" as such so I hope this is the right place for this ? :-


    When I read about Dead mans cave and the Celtic Walls I just had to have a Teddy Tour



    I parked in Feizor and just by chance the Farmer was in the yard so I went over to ask if my van was in the way, it wasn't, and showed him a photo copy of the chapter and maps on the Celtic Walls etc. and asked if there was any good erratics I might photograph on the way. He had a laugh and said that 1892 was a bit before his time but if I followed one Bridal way up, not on his land, then took the second gate and across the fields I'd get on to his land and pick up a track to where I wanted to be and if anyone challenged me tell them ***** said it was OK to be on here.
    Thank you Mr Farmer. As I got higher I began to pass erratics



    Green Lichen on the Grir/Sandstone, White on the Limestone



    Till I arrived at the Celtic Walls which are not shown on the modern maps and I've drawn them on the map in in red





    looking over the main wall to Smearsette Scar



    and looking back from the top of Smearsette Scar to the walls (I'll do another post about here if that's OK / wanted ?)



    and a zoom



    back to looking along the end of the larger wall



    and along the edge of the smaller



    looking from the walls over to Langcliffe between Stainforth Settle and Malham



    I then swung right round the scars and headed to Dead Mans Cave for dinner, I mean who wouldn't visit this marked so prominently on the map ?



    It took some finding though as it's well hidden in the landscape contours



    put a brew on as I explored the cave, after daylight level it get's really low and wet



    but it would make a good wet weather brew stop shelter



    no trouble this day drank brew and put crumpets on



    With x1 cup Risotto rice - x2 cup water - 1/4 cup dried Porcini Mushrooms - x1 smoked Kebano sliced - big pinch Italian herbs - splash Olive Oil - bring to boil, simmer till water absorbed, keep stirring. Wine - Australian Colombard Chardonay



    Olive Oil is in a Grants miniature whiskey bottle which fits in the top pan of the Zebra 14cm Billy along with a sawn-off Trangia pot holder and a 35mm film holder full of Brown sugar for coffee. The wine was that good I called in and bought a full size bottle on the way home. But not before stopping at the Ebbing and Flowing Well on Buck Haw Brow SD 80400 65374 which is on the way back











    Which sadly no longer seems to live up to it's name,
    just thought I'd share, anyone fancy a another look ? cheers all Danny




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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Paulus on Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:55 am

    Utterly superb Dan! I'm really liking your additions to these 'ere forums. They're excellent - no other word for it!

    I hope Teddy had a good day out aswell. Doesn't he get tired going walking all this distance, travelling o'er t'hills, with such short legs?

    ttfn - Paul Cool
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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  lowergate on Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:12 am

    Paul, take note - this IS the way to view sites - fine wine, good food & good company (Teddy)

    Thanks Danny for the cooking tips & use of camping kit - makes for a more civilised day out - john

    PS: HUDSON's BOOKS/PUBLISHING in Settle (prop: Phill Hudson) has copious amounts of info' on all the ancient sites in the North Craven district

    www.hudson-history.co.uk

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 am

    Danny, thank you for your brilliant postings. Including the map and the photos enables us to share your explorations from the comfort of our own homes, even though we are hundreds of miles away. The map is also useful for following your route via Google Earth. Here is what the Celtic stones look like from on high.
    You can see that the one to the south-east appears to have been much longer at some time in the past.
    These walls are orientated against the prevailing south-westerly wind and may have been erected as protection for sheep.
    Cliff

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:23 am

    Danny, if you ever plan to go back to Freizor again, I would be grateful if you could have a look on the ground for the following. Whilst looking for the Celtic walls I noticed a large circular mark on top of the scar in the "field" to the west. Using Google Earth's measurements the outer circle has a diameter of about 68ft. and the inner circle a diameter of about 26ft. It may be something entirely natural, and it may be something that you can only spot from above, but I would be interested to know if it can be made out on the ground. Thanks.
    Cliff

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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  QDanT on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:12 am

    Hi Cliff, no problem any excuse for a wine in the hills and it's only 25 miles from home. It's down as "enclosuer" here
    http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=54.1029788125741&lon=-2.310346318490639&gz=18&oz=8&gt=1
    usually by dinner time though the site runs out of modern map and goes back to 1940's copyright free, on memory map it says the same

    SD 79797 67471 cheers Danny


    Last edited by QDanT on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added map ref.)


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    QDanT

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    ps

    Post  QDanT on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:21 am

    If you click the where's the path link top right drop down box click satellite and zoom out a couple of clicks
    cheers Danny
    here's a link to my Blog tour of Smearsett scar http://teddytourteas.blogspot.com/2011/04/smearsett-scar-teddy-tour.html


    Last edited by QDanT on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Smearsett link)


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    for Cliff (Eskdale)

    Post  QDanT on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:14 am

    As requested by Cliff :- photo's today 21-7-11
    parked at Feizor and set off on the Bridalway (looking back)



    soon gained height with Inglebourgh coming into view



    and then Smearsett scar



    I'll chuck a couple in for my Blog now (as it'll save me posting twice which takes time !)

    Whistling for Oldmortality and it was perched not pinched !



    and I don't know this it just caught my eye ?



    OK back to TNA and Cliff





    at 001



    at 002



    at 003



    here's the enclosure you wanted a look at 004



    it's right by the track



    with loads of atmosphere !



    then a look at the Erattics at 005



    these from Crummack Dale, note the green Litchen - Sandstone



    then 006





    then 007 Dead Mans Cave





    I had a Lavazza drip coffee the Bear had a South African Pinotage



    it was then 100 yds on to the top of the ridge to photograph

    Inglebourgh



    Penyghent



    Attermire and Warrendale Knotts



    and Pendle



    and another Erattic at 008





    Then back to the track and down to the van - just thought I'd share cheers all Danny




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    Eskdale

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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:13 pm

    Danny,
    Thanks very much for taking all of those photos of the sites near Feizor.
    The "enclosure" site (No.4) really stands out.
    I note that the OS map says "Enclosure" in a gothic type font.
    That is usually meant to indicate something of antiquity.
    Presumably that suggests that it was used for something other than a sheep pen in the winter?
    Thanks for including your marker on the images, please can you tell me how long each of the black & white sections are?
    I am surprised that the grass is so lush, as the Google Earth images suggested a much poorer soil.
    The Google Earth images were taken in August, so not that much difference in the time of year.

    BTW I think that the yellow flowered plant is a Common Rock Rose, it likes limestone soils so it is not surprising to find it up there.

    Thanks for the extra shots of the cave. What a nice cosy place!
    I notice that the bear has changed his tipple from Australian white to red.
    Surely that size of glass is too big for him, considering his BMI.
    I expect you probably had to carry him home after all that alcohol?
    Thanks again,
    Cliff

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:26 pm

    Your photos prompt me to ask another question Danny.
    In the second photo of the erratics at Site 5, there appears to be another stone in the distance, towards the left hand side. If I interpret the orientation of your photos correctly, this stone lies north of the stones at Site 5?
    So it is not the stone st Site 6.
    Please can you confirm if I have this right?
    Many thanks
    Cliff

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:45 pm

    Here's another question Danny,
    Did you take any more photos of the erratics at Site 8?
    Its just that it looks to me as if it might have been one tall stone that has fractured into two smaller pieces.
    Your other photos might show if the two ends could possibly match, allowing for 100s of years of sheep rubbing!
    Thanks
    Cliff
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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
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    more for Cliff

    Post  QDanT on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:25 pm

    Thanks for including your marker on the images, please can you tell me how long each of the black & white sections are?

    bottom of stick to start of black 16"
    black 16"
    white section with orange whistle 11-1/2"
    top black section 6"
    top white plus black end 3-1/2"

    total length of stick 55"

    So it is not the stone st Site 6. Please can you confirm if I have this right?

    that's right it's looking downhill towards Smearsett scar and just another Erratic
    this is looking back uphill from 005 to 006



    Did you take any more photos of the erratics at Site 8?



    I need a lie down now phew ! this is harder than the walking !
    cheers Danny


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    Sunbright57

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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Sunbright57 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:22 pm

    Teddy likes his tipples that why he needs carrying home, and what about Danny ? Question

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:43 am

    Danny, many thanks for your answers to my recent questions.
    I am intrigued by the existence of The Celtic Wall.
    It is far more solid than it needs to be, if it was built just as a sheep shelter.
    The purpose of the Wall may lie in its orientation.
    One of your photos in an earlier posting shows the wall from the southern end looking north-west.
    It looks from that photo that the crest of the Smearsett Scar obscures the summit of Ingleborough.
    I suspect that the wall might be orientated towards the summit of Ingleborough.
    If you have an OS map of that area for your fell walking, could you please see if the alignment of the wall is in the direction of Ingleborough?

    Thanks for the other photo of the stones at Site 8.
    Having look at other images of glacial erratics on the Net, all the stones seem to have been rounded off by glacial action into huge smooth sided pebbles. It looks to me that many of the stones that you photographed around Feizor are too angular to be of glacial origin. Although it is possible that the sharp angles are a result of larger stones breaking in two. And that would explain why you get the stones lying in twos.
    Cheers,
    Cliff

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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
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    Glacial Erratics

    Post  QDanT on Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:38 am

    Hi Cliff, not all erratics are smooth and one of my hobbies is finding and photographing them (sad!) I don't know if you've heard of the Norber Erratics ? same source (Crummock Dale) as the Feizor ones and only 2-1/2 miles away



    here's a few notes about them :-
    The Norber erratics have the peculiar feature that they are older than the rock on which they now rest.
    They are Silurian greywacke sandstones of the Ordovician Age and are 430 million years old.
    During the last Ice Age 13,000 years ago, the glacier flowed south out of Crummackdale and over the brow of the hill
    picking up the Silurain greywacke and transporting it southwards about a mile. When the ice melted, the transported material
    was deposited on top of the carboniferous limestone, formed some 330 million years ago on the floor of a shallow sea.
    Whilst the general surface of the limestone bedrock has been lowered by about 24" the erratics have been left standing on
    small plinths of protected limestone, having acted as natural umbrellas, sheltering the limestone from weathering and erosion.



    the main field of them are where the foot paths meet above Nappa Scars which are above the village of Austwick near Clapham North Yorkshire.You can see some of the Erratics on the skyline



    It is easy to tell them apart from the clear difference in colour. The sandstone is covered in green lichen and the limestone in white lichen.



    If the Glacier didn't leave them perched it left them in a heap



    photo opportunity for the Bear



    and a wind break for dinner



    I don't know where you live but I wouldn't mind sticking a feather in my hat and leading a TNA Tour ? anyone else ?
    though I did ask 6-6-11 at the end of post #1 ?
    P.S. the yellow flower is Rock Rose cheers Cliff
    cheers Danny

















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    Eskdale

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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:59 am

    Norber erratics - looks like you know your onions Danny.
    I bow to your geological expertise, and I will stick to my specialism - botany!
    If the Norber erratics were only transported about a mile away from where they were picked up, they were not in the ice long enough to get worn down?

    I'll take you up on that offer of a tour, but not for a while.
    I live down here amongst the flat-earth folk of Essex.
    But next year, I plan to get a cottage out of season and visit Feizor.
    So please keep fit Danny, and I`ll be in touch :-)
    Cliff
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    Sunbright57

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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Sunbright57 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:33 am

    .


    Last edited by Sunbright57 on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  QDanT on Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:08 pm

    Eskdale wrote:
    I'll take you up on that offer of a tour, but not for a while.
    I live down here amongst the flat-earth folk of Essex.
    But next year, I plan to get a cottage out of season and visit Feizor.
    So please keep fit Danny, and I`ll be in touch :-)
    Cliff

    Hi Cliff, Essex ?? that's south of Doncaster isn't it ?
    Don't worry though Teddy'll send you a Yorkshire Visa !
    Here's another Norber :-




    I'll get an Erratics-R-Us Blog together in the next couple of days
    cheers Danny


    Last edited by QDanT on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed dead link)


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    QDanT

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    Another view of 004

    Post  QDanT on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:47 am

    I've been playing with filters and the slide bar on 004 SD 79798 67473, and thought some ? might be interested to see the results ?
    solorized

    metalic 109

    metalic 47

    1ce 109

    ice 47

    solorized

    metalic 109

    metalic 47

    ice 109

    ice 47

    just thought I'd share cheers Danny


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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:29 am

    Impressive images Danny,
    But what do they mean? I`m not very good at interpreting those.
    All I can spot is as follows -
    Some of the images give a good idea of the thickness of the walls.
    And the centre of the circle seems to be slightly elevated.
    The circle also appears to be complete, whereas whatever use it had I would have expected part of the periphery to be shallower where there was an entrance to access the enclosure.

    Now if only you had used infra-red !
    Talking of technology, with Christmas fast approaching how about getting Ted a small geo-phys. kit?
    Its about time he did something to earn all of that wine.

    As for the Norbers on "stilts" , they are like charicatures of the dolmens from Cornwall and over in Ireland!
    Just immensely top heavy.
    Cliff

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:33 am

    I have studied the images again Danny.
    Look at the photo with the tree in the background...
    It looks as if there might be a gap in the perimeter on the left hand side (i.e. the side that the tree is on).
    But I cannot make out the same gap in the other photo.
    Was the second photo taken from the opposite side of the enclosure?
    Cliff
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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  QDanT on Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:29 am

    Hi Clff the second photo is only the other side of the track the tree is only just out of shot,
    as to what they mean I've no idea I just thought that to someone who knows, a different coloiured
    view might be interesting, like you spotted the centre seems to be raised ? 's them on here ?
    cheers Danny


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    Bump

    Post  QDanT on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:23 am

    Just thought I'd Bump this thread to see if there's any comments about the use of the filters and indeed what the circle is ?
    Maybe a TNA Trip ? cheers Danny


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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Eskdale on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:14 pm

    Hi Danny, your photos have intrigued me about this site, and I have found a nice self-catering cottage in Feizor that would do me nicely for a week. But it unlikely to happen until next Spring due to other commitments. Meanwhile I remain foxed by the Celtic Wall and why it was built. I thought that it might have been a pointer towards some important site, but when I extrapolated the line of the wall to the north-west, it did not take me to the top of Ingleborough, or even to Gaping Ghyll, so I have ruled that out.
    As for the enclosure, the walls look remarkably thick, even if they have collapsed in on themselves.
    But it is difficult to gauge the thickness without being on site. What thickness do you make them if we use your ranging stick as a guide? If they were just loose stones, then I would not be surprised if they were as thick as the Celtic Wall?
    The enclosure looks like a complete circle, but presumably there is a gap somewhere on the perimeter where the entrance was. Do you remember seeing any gap in the preimeter? If so can you remember which direction the entrance was facing?
    Sorry about all of these questions. I hope to get the answers next spring on site.
    All the best,
    Cliff
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    Paulus

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    Re: The Celtic Walls

    Post  Paulus on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:08 pm

    QDanT wrote:Just thought I'd Bump this thread to see if there's any comments about the use of the filters and indeed what the circle is ?
    Maybe a TNA Trip ? cheers Danny


    The term 'enclosure' (as shown on the OS-map) is commonly used on a site when archaeolgists actually don't know worrit is. A trip out there sounds a good idea to me. There's a few others sites close by that we could take in aswell.

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