The Northern Antiquarian Forum

Archaeology, folklore & myth of Britain's pre-christian sites & heritage: stone circles, holy wells, maypoles, tombs, archaic cosmologies and human consciousness. Everyone welcome - even Southerners!


    Another hello!

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    muttoneer

    Join date : 2010-10-10

    Another hello!

    Post  muttoneer on Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:10 pm

    Hello everyone,
    I've visited TNA a few times before, but this time have decided to join the forum!
    I live half way between Manchester and Liverpool, though I am originally from South Wales. My interest in ancient sites is a long standing one, both as a history buff and a keen fortean. My wife is very understanding of my odd desire to make unusual detours to visit rocks or lumpy fields! I've also recently decided to follow a Pagan path, which gives an added significance for special places of antiquity.
    Looking forward to a proper browse around the forums now I'm a member.
    Cheers,
    M.
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:45 pm

    Hi Muttoneer! Good to have you on board!

    muttoneer wrote:I live half way between Manchester and Liverpool,

    Whereabouts? Do you know of any old stones, holy well, or such likes nearby? Our team of wanderers haven't strayed that far west as yet, though we keep meaning to check out the moors east of Manchester, where a lotta little-known stuff seems hidden on the moors. Is that a stretch too far...?

    muttoneer wrote:My interest in ancient sites is a long standing one, both as a history buff and a keen fortean.

    Fortean's good! Cool

    muttoneer wrote:I've also recently decided to follow a Pagan path, which gives an added significance for special places of antiquity.

    What brought the 'pagan' up & into the open with you? Megaliths? Madness? Forteana?

    Anyway - welcome to TNA! Hope you can put up with some of the madness here... Very Happy

    Cheers - Paul

    muttoneer

    Join date : 2010-10-10

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  muttoneer on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:26 pm

    Paulus wrote:Hi Muttoneer! Good to have you on board!

    Thank you Very Happy

    Paulus wrote:Whereabouts? Do you know of any old stones, holy well, or such likes nearby?

    Lowton, near Leigh. I'm quite near to St Oswald's Well and Highfield Barrow - my commute to and from work takes me past both of them actually. We've also had the excitement of a newly discovered barrow nearby in the last few years, at Lady Hill (Golborne) which I believe English Heritage are in the process of verifying.

    I'm actually very near indeed to the Southworth Hall site, one of the most upsetting acts of destruction I've ever heard about, though not very well known. Potentially one of the most important archaeological sites in the region was lost to sand quarrying only thirty years or so ago: http://newton-le-willows.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=556&Itemid=1

    This is reason enough for people to locate and preserve places like this.

    Paulus wrote:What brought the 'pagan' up & into the open with you? Megaliths? Madness? Forteana?

    The problem of having studied early Christianity! I just found I couldn't trust organised religion as it showed belief through the lens of two thousand years of self-interested factionalism. I felt there was a spiritual path that I could follow that was clearly marked in the seasons and the landscape around me. The remains our long departed ancestors left behind are something tangible to tie me to a past when others drew their spiritual inspiration from the world around them, and so ancient sites are very important to me.
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  cropredy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:04 pm

    Muttoneer,
    Welcome,
    I used to collect bloodworm out of the river not far from You, it runs out of Pennington flash, and runs close by the east Lancs road.

    Thats a very interesting link, especially the urn lid with nine lines in the four directions, the centre point is where the urn would have been placed, I. M. dowsing opinion.
    The other urn lid with what looks like a ladder arrangement is where rectangles of 55inch by 34 inch are sited, and the graves will have been in them, as they are outside many churchs.
    The zig zag patterning represents the bloch walls(neal walls) electrical detectable system that is created between opposing direction field lines, the width between the two lines determines the amplitude of this and thus the zig zag patterning which is in effect a wave similer to a slinky, there are four such pathways created at most such sites.
    It's all geometry of a matrix of phase conjugate optical time reversed laser beams that are commonly called leylines.
    There are NINE lines to every so called leyline, there are two main orientations , N.S.E.W and what bisects that, same as the solstice and equinox points, and what bisects them, samhain approchs, the geometry thins the veil between dimensions.


    cropredy

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    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:17 pm

    good to have you amomg Paulus's War Band

    best regards

    j

    Mutton cooked in the Northern way - we are with you ...

    ‘The path is not a line between places; it is a place between places, a place of its own.’
    (Leon Wieseltier, 2010)
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  cropredy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:58 am

    Muttoneer,
    This site is interesting with regards to that area,
    http://n-le-w.co.uk/history/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1413

    The later central urn been placed precisely on top of the first central urn is very signifigant, imo.
    in your link they declare the first was possibly marked in some way, imo it is a point that will still be there no matter how much they remove the physical sand, the point is the point where multiple leylines will cross in a finite point, and the vertical line will rise out to infinity, if you were to construct a pyramid there then the geometry of this detectable matrix would supply the DEVINE measure to perfection.
    The dual aspect of the graves over time shows that two powerfull flows possibly meet there, is there a St mary's church nearby and another church with a different saints name?
    those saints names imo are related to the flows orientation.
    the flows are different to the geometry of the matrix, they flow on the matrix but meander in river fashion taking the course of least resistance, the flows are often called dragon lines, hence the confusion of them been leylines.
    Those flows are what imo the people recognised as where they went to upon death, and where they returned from back into a new life.
    Therefore the positioning of the deceased was important.
    cropredy

    muttoneer

    Join date : 2010-10-10

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  muttoneer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:59 pm

    Thanks guys,
    Cropredy, that's an interesting theory about the persistence of the grave sites thanks to the energies that are there, even if the evidence of humans at that place has been destroyed. It's a nice consolation for the loss I suppose!
    Actually I have considered the Southworth Hall area in terms of ley lines myself previously. I am aware that Winwick Church, the Highfield Lane Barrows and the Southworth Hall complex are all in a line which, oddly enough, if continued eastward goes straight to the front door of Newchurch in Culcheth (which is built on the site of something much older).
    This line actually intersects with another line which can be drawn between the two most prominent features on the horizon hereabouts, Rivington Pike and the hills south of Warrington (in the area of Appleton). There are several churches along this second line. The place that these intersect? Southworth Hall itself!
    As with all such postulation, make of it what you will. It's certainly not a theory I've tested, but these are obvious straight lines on the map and on the ground Smile
    Cheers,
    M.

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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Straight lines

    Post  cropredy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:52 pm

    Muttoneer,
    There will be many straight lines involved, but remember NINE lines involved with each line( aprox 200 feet width in total)
    Think in terms of train lines, and where trains cross from one line to the next, think of many such cross overs all leading to one finite point, as is shown on that urn lid.
    The geometry involved is too complex to show, so I am with our ancient friends with K.I.S.S, keep it simple stupid.
    Thus they showed the simple.
    To keep it simple, think of the train travelling back along the route it took to reach the central point, then think of the moon been the signal man that alters the points .
    Think of been a passenger on the train when YOU die, think of getting a return ticket.
    Think of KNOWING how to locally ensure You get off at the station where you got on.
    That is the sort of KNOWLEDGE our ancient megalithic builders had, We have fallen asleep and forgotten.
    but it's time to remember.
    I have remembered.
    cropredy

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    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Guest on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:01 pm



    Hi Cropredy,

    I have read with interest what you say about ENERGY LINES & I have also read Mark Butler's work on such in the Blackurn area ...

    But I still fail to fully grasp the concept

    Can you recomend me a good book that gets to the CORE of the concept ?

    best regards

    LOWERGATE

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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:33 am

    Hi M!

    muttoneer wrote:I'm quite near to St Oswald's Well and Highfield Barrow - my commute to and from work takes me past both of them actually.

    Do you have further info on these sites? We could do with sticking 'em on TNA!

    muttoneer wrote:We've also had the excitement of a newly discovered barrow nearby in the last few years, at Lady Hill (Golborne) which I believe English Heritage are in the process of verifying.

    Sounds good! D' y' know if the Lady Hill is named after some upper-class lass, or is there some Lady Well hiding somewhere nearby that's given the place its name?

    The Southworth Hall site sounded & looked damn good! Pity the "development" people destroyed it, as is increasingly the case, but the weblink you gave at least gives us images & info of the site. But I wonder if this is the way our money-obsessed country is increasingly gonna go, only preserving sites if they're worth owt for the tourist industry.

    Paulus wrote:...The remains our long departed ancestors left behind are something tangible to tie me to a past when others drew their spiritual inspiration from the world around them, and so ancient sites are very important to me.

    I've gotta echo your sentiments. The more of us who have such notions, the greater potential there is for us to 'manage' such places. But we've a huge problem, as those in positions alleged to look after our ancient sites tend to have their heads up-their-proverbials a lotta the time, and seem very much entrapped within non-organic regulatory systems that simple echo the working machinations of the religious and political system that so many of us know to be ineffective and crap. It's a difficult situation tbh.

    Anyway, tis good to have you on board again!

    All the best - Paul
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:42 am

    Hello again Muttoneer!

    Just a query: do you know or have the contact details of the fella who wrote the webpage & 'Celtic Warrington' book, Mark Olley? I wouldn't mind gerrin in touch with the fella. Any help would be gratefully received. Send a private message if you know his address/email, etc.

    ttfn - Paul Very Happy
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  cropredy on Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:40 pm

    lowergate wrote:

    Hi Cropredy,

    I have read with interest what you say about ENERGY LINES & I have also read Mark Butler's work on such in the Blackurn area ...

    But I still fail to fully grasp the concept

    Can you recomend me a good book that gets to the CORE of the concept ?

    best regards

    LOWERGATE


    No I can't , I don't think it's been written , Yet.
    Think of the geometry as seperate from that which flows about upon the geometry, like a train on tracks, the tracks remain fixed, but the train can cross about onto whichever line.
    Think of a force that has 720 degree geometry, one 360 degree of which spins in the opposite direction to the other 360 degrees, and where one is fractionally larger that the other, thus the fit inside each other.
    Which ever way they are spinning, the other half is seeking to spin the opposite way, thus a constant chase is ongoing, the serpent biting it's own tail.

    The geometry is fixed, as are traintracks, and if the train was hurtling along it would always take the route of least resistance, and if a spiral set of trackways were inclined that would result in the train heading in spiral fashion into the finite end point of the spiral.

    But at the end point of a spiral, a turntable exists, here the route turns around and the train then follows an outward opposite direction spiral leading away from the spiral finite point.
    think of this in terms of breathing in/out.

    The train lines are laid out in accordance with Dr fibonacci sequencing.
    Kevin

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    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Guest on Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:50 pm

    Thanks Kevin

    I have copied what you say and will read it over till a picture emerges from the (to me) paradox

    A short booklet (with diagrams) might be a good task to set yourself

    If I like it, I will publish & distribute it for you Kevin

    john
    AUSSTEIGER PUBLICATIONS

    PS: Consider it Kevin

    j
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  cropredy on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:11 pm

    Lowergate,
    That is very flattering, and to a hobbit like myself comical.
    I realise a picture is better than a thousand words, but can't even take pictures.
    I am a throw back to another time, when there were no books, hence the stones.
    I do feel obliged to inform, but it will be at my own pace, and when I am ready.

    let's just say I sense another guide, like a shadow leading me, and i am comfortable with it.
    when this particuler hobbit crawled out of a hole in the ground and looked around, it's first utterance were.
    W.T.F
    cropredy

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    Guest

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Guest on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:25 pm

    'Wot The F*ck' ? - some birth cry

    GET WRITING YOU LAZY LITTLE HOBBIT BUGGER!!!! - otherwise you could end up as a short, squat, bald druid!

    Best regards

    john
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  cropredy on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:33 pm

    I am not lazy sir,
    I have been to france this week and fitted a new boiler for my daughter there, sold a van full of furniture, bought another van full, ran my shop and sold many things, fitted a new imnmersion heater here and now am enjoying a glass of vin rouge plonk.
    Lazy????
    Doing too much already.
    Cropredy

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    Guest

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Guest on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:50 pm


    If, as you say, you are not lazy - then realize your potential (good electrical/cosmic word - few understand its meaning)

    I too have a daughter - spent weeks this summer fitting out her new salon

    but - I always find/make time for writing - I find between 3.30 - 8.30. am the most profitable hours, it leaves the day free for doing much the same as you do

    The 'writing' I do on this site is more the 'play of ideas' - testing the waters one may call it

    Become a verb Kevin, not a noun

    j

    muttoneer

    Join date : 2010-10-10

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  muttoneer on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:30 pm

    Paulus wrote:Do you have further info on these sites? We could do with sticking 'em on TNA!

    I'll see what I can dig up (no pun intended!) Most of what I know of them comes from the Megalithic Portal though.

    Paulus wrote:Sounds good! D' y' know if the Lady Hill is named after some upper-class lass, or is there some Lady Well hiding somewhere nearby that's given the place its name?

    I'd suspect the latter, but I've no idea I'm afraid. Steven from the Newton-le-Willows website has researched all this sort of stuff, I'll see if I can find something in one of his postings.

    Can't help with Mark Olley either, more's the pity.

    I'm going to pop into Warrington Museum one day soon to see if anything from any of these local barrows is actually on display. Wouldn't mind seeing some of the urns, if they still exist.
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:32 pm

    muttoneer wrote:
    Paulus wrote:Sounds good! D' y' know if the Lady Hill is named after some upper-class lass, or is there some Lady Well hiding somewhere nearby that's given the place its name?

    I'd suspect the latter, but I've no idea I'm afraid. Steven from the Newton-le-Willows website has researched all this sort of stuff, I'll see if I can find something in one of his postings.

    The statistical probability would err more to the hill being named after a forgotten holy/healing well than some posh lass. I'll have a wade thru mi library and see if owt emerges! It'd be good if the English Place-Name Society had surveyed Lancashire, but they aint touched it yet, more's the pity! Them there field-names don't half give us plenty to go on when it comes to heathen remains hiding away, unfound...

    muttoneer wrote:Can't help with Mark Olley either, more's the pity.

    I'll put word out & see wot comes back. He seems a pretty dedicated dood! Cool

    ttfn - Paul
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:42 pm

    btw - would the St. Oswald's Well that you mentioned be this one:

    http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=8084

    I'm just reading thru the notes made of it by Henry Taylor (he mentions another of the same name at Warton, Lancs). I'll add 'em to TNA and send 'em to Andy on the MegPortal if he wants them.

    (back to looking for a Lady Well.....)

    muttoneer

    Join date : 2010-10-10

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  muttoneer on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:48 am

    Paulus wrote:btw - would the St. Oswald's Well that you mentioned be this one:

    http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=8084

    That's the bunny! Not much to look at from the road unfortunately, but a site of some antiquity nonetheless!
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Another hello!

    Post  Paulus on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:48 pm

    I've just added the site to TNA here - well, its folklore anyway...

    http://megalithix.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/st-oswalds-well-winwick/

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