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    Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

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    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:17 am

    Hi, I have recently been out detecting over in Horton near Barnoldswick. As mentioned in earlier posts Horton has had a lot of activity over the years especially the medieval period.
    Over the years the landowners around Horton have all said “A Roman road runs through here somewhere” although I have never really found any evidence to support this, but I did find a single Roman coin the other month – first one I have had from Horton.


    At the side of this site there is a marker post in the ground that has the initials DC engraved – I think. Obviously this is something very interesting and needs looking into. This marker post is on the Lancashire side of the boundary!










    Last edited by scocker626 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 60
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Sunbright57 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:46 am

    Thanks Steve, some very interesting Roman finds there. That stone looks quite ancient, could it be part of an old cross-head or even a Roman milestone ?

    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:24 pm

    I am not sure at all on the date of the marker because I have also found some bits from the Medieval period, a couple of Edward 111 half Groats, so it might even be medieval? I spoke to a friend of mine about it and he said Roman mile stones are usually smaller than this, but he said it still could be. I am just a bit surprised that there does not seem to be any reference to it on the maps etc.

    Interesting place though because I have detected for a good few years now from Wheets hill to Nappa and only found 4 Roman coins. Then all of a sudden you find a field that throws 10 up in a few hours.
    I was hoping that a few people on this forum might find a bit of time to go and take a look. For all I know though it might be recorded somewhere?






    Last edited by scocker626 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 60
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Sunbright57 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:37 pm

    I'm not sure myself what Roman milestones look like. Although, the 'Great Stone' at Downham has sometimes been considered to be part of a Roman milestone. It is generally thought to be the gravestone of two Roman soldiers killed by Brigantes. The said stone lies beneath the wall of Downham Hall beside the main entrance. There might be a photo of it somewhere on TNA ? Ray.
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Paulus on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:09 pm

    scocker626 wrote:You can take a look at some photos that I have uploaded to photobucket including the interesting marker post.

    http://s1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj519/scocker626/Roman%20Finds%20Horton/


    That's an excellent collection of coins you've found there! Seems like you're doing some damn fine work thereby - and I'd keep hold of 'em if I were you. Wink

    All the best - Paul
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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 60
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Sunbright57 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:28 pm

    Yes its tempting to keep hold of those coins, but better to be on the safe side and let the pro's have a look first - treasure trove and all that nonsense.

    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:10 am

    Yes, I am going to let Dot know about the site first, I think though that it will be passed over to the Yorkshire side.

    All the Roman coins are actually made of copper with a thin silver surface layer (some) so the treasure act will not apply in this instance Ray. I find it remarkable that these coins have not corroded away, even copper alloy coins that have been in the ground less that 100 years can be extremely corroded.

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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  lowergate on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:33 pm


    Subject: Horton Roman Road





    First noted by E E Gregory (BSJ No.1. Vol 3. 1910)

    He noted a road between Horton and Swinden to Long Preston. A typical section of this roadway shows that it was 6 yards wide, cambered in the centre, and well made. It is sunk around 18 inches below the level of the surrounding ground, and has a parallel bank or earthwork on either side; many stones may be seen in each bank.

    During February 1989, members of the Pendle Heritage Centre Archaeological Group uncovererd what they hold to be the southern section of Gregory's 'Roman' road and observed it heading in the direction of Barnoldswick. The PHCAG 'Roman' road is located between Horton and Swinden below Stoop Hill. This section of the road was seen to be around 16 feet in width with a ditch on either side, cambered in the centre.

    (more info' in 'Journeys through Brigantia', Volume 2. Aussteiger Publications (out of print but available from Barnoldswick and Colne libraries).

    Hope this helps


    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:27 pm

    Thanks very much for the info Lowergate, I will take a look up to Colne library for more information.

    The old maps online has shed some light on the marker post with the initials DC, it is from an old bridle road at the side of the site. There is also another marker stone further along. On the old maps this bridle road joins other paths/roads and seems like some sort of crossroads. I have briefly been around the area at these 'crosroads' and there is plenty of iron around with medieval pieces coming up.

    the roman site has produced a couple of superb brooches, and coinage. The coins range from 2nd century to late 3rd century although I have yet to see/find one piece of pottery, so maybe a settlement can be ruled out?


    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


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    I have also removed some earlier comments regarding the exact location of the site as I dont think it fair on landowner to have potential nighthawks on his land.

    I will keep this site posted on future sites/finds

    Thanks again

    Steve


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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  lowergate on Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:05 pm

    Some superb finds here (you will keep Dot at Preston very busy). Superb coin of Severus Alexander - always liked that hawk on the arm design. David Shotter at Lancaster University is your man for Roman coins - good guy to talk to.

    Good hunting - and do not rule out a settlement/farmstead in the area

    Best

    john

    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:22 am

    Hi, I found the road, WOW totally unspoiled by the plough - see photobucket photos. I find it quite strange that even the victorians did not put a name to this part of the road on the old maps.

    The Roman finds are getting a bit sparce now at the site so looking further afield. I will keep updating the forum as and when finds do pop up, and later I will include the later medieval pieces/coins.

    Yea, I am sure Dot curses her inbox when she sees my name on the emails Mad She would never admit it though.....





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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    Gregory's road

    Post  QDanT on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:15 am

    Hi Scocker626,(and the rest of TNA) I'm Danny from Earby and was out with Lowergate on Friday and he thought you might be interested in Gregory's road at Mark 003
    and the earthworks running down from it at Mark 004 all the way down to the river and the two enclosures joining like a fig. 8 on it's side, with a spring at their lower middle join,at Marks 005 and 6 ?

    Mark 002

    Mark 002



    Mark 003




    Mark 004



    talked to two canoeing from Horton in Ribblesdale to Preston










    Mark 005





    Mark 006







    cheers Danny


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    Sunbright57

    Join date : 2011-02-10
    Age : 60
    Location : Nelson - the one in Lancashire sorry to say!

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Sunbright57 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:01 am

    Superb photos once again Danny and John doesn't look too bad either. Next time ask John to take a photo of yourself. I'm sure he'd oblige. Ha. Basketball
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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    A Sat. image

    Post  QDanT on Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:53 pm




    cheers Danny


    _________________
    Out here at the perimeter, there are no stars.
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    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:20 am

    Hi Danny - some superb photographs there. It just goes to show that with a trained eye and experience what can be found what our ancestors built. Obviously Horton had some quite major roads/tracks running through it.

    Another interesting track in Horton that is quite substantial is the one at Pit Hill.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    This track joins other roads including Gregory's road and seems like a crossroads of some kind.


    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    Directly at these crossroads I have found some evidence of foundations of a building and a great amount of iron in the ground. I have spoken to the landowner about this and he says that his dad tried to plough this area and was met with 'some ruins' was his words.....

    I have noticed that Gregory's road does not say Gregory's 'Roman' road which I am presuming that he was not sure if it was roman or not? These roads are quite substantial in places and I personally would say Roman but so far I have found nothing Roman either coin or artifact on or at the sides of the road - although this proves nothing. It is very early days though and we know that there was a Roman presence nearby from the finds. I will keep on plodding along and keeping this forum up to date on the area.

    In the meantime I have posted some medieval finds on photobucket from Horton found Yesterday on Dumber Hill Horton.

    I am not sure what this item is and at a rough guess I would say it is a Steelyard balance?? also the edward coin came from the same hill. i dont really want to clean this artifact as i could damage it! but it really is a super find.

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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  QDanT on Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:33 am

    Hi scocker626, great finds again, steelyard balance ? did they have a standardised weight measurement at the time ? as for Gregorys road, talking to John on the way round it would no doubt have been used as a Drove road long after the Romans had been forgotten ?

    there's certainly lots to find around Horton.
    cheers Danny


    Last edited by QDanT on Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)


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    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:12 am

    Hi just got in from an hours detecting at the 'crossroads' mentioned in earlier post. It is a bronze seal matrix that has had a little corrosion on the edges. I love finding personal artifacts.
    I will have to let the experts take a look at these latest finds as I am sure they will be able to tell us more.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    more earthworks

    Post  QDanT on Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:15 pm

    looking at Castle Haugh from the air there looks to be some substantial "earthworks"
    at the other end of the wood and onto the road bend. I think another trip there is called for.





    cheers all Danny


    _________________
    Out here at the perimeter, there are no stars.
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    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:22 am

    Hi, thanks Danny for the info, I have got permission for the farm with the 'Roman' camp so I will be taking a look in the near future. See what date pops up if anything. I had a quick walk to this site last year but the land is extremely poor - hardly any drainage whatsoever.

    The last find posted the other day is a coin balance, aka a 'Tumbrel' this is an extremely rare find and it may be a first for Lancashire.

    http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ceejays_site/pages/tumbrel1.htm



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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  lowergate on Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:43 am

    Hi, just back from the Becca Banks Survey in Yorkshire. Will dig out from my files what I have on 'Gregory's Road' and see what comes up. On Saturday I intend to visit the Roman fort at Long Preston with a friend and take in the two sites Danny found (above). Lots of things turning up around Horton - 20 odd years since I looked at that area. Back soon.
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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Horton Roman Road

    Post  lowergate on Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:06 am



    HORTON, SWINDEN ‘ROMAN’ ROAD

    Bradford Scientific Journal, No.1. Vol. 111, July 1910, p.11.
    E.E.Gregory – good map of road which he refers to as a Roman Road. Also notes another EW road meeting at Swinden Hall. Notes also ‘Burwains’ just NE of Swinden & Round Hill Tumulus to the west.

    Yorkshire Archaeological Journal, Vol. 35 (1933) pp. 214/23
    Dr A Raistrick here notes a Roman road between Long Preston and Swinden continuing south towards Horton.

    Nelson Leader, February 10th, 1989 p.19.
    Picture and short report on finding of the Horton section of the Roman road by Pendle Heritage Centre Archaeological Group. The road was excavated by David Taylor and Geoff Ingham and seen to be 16ft wide.

    Can you put your found section on a map ?

    Best

    john
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    QDanT

    Join date : 2011-05-29
    Location : Earby used to be in Yorkshire

    Folk memory ???

    Post  QDanT on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:37 pm

    modern map Enclosure



    1930's OS Camp



    cheers Danny


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    scocker626

    Join date : 2011-10-05

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  scocker626 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:22 am

    That's some good information there danny. The new earthworks looks very interesting at Castle haugh. Im not sure about the earthworks at 'Roman camp' is scheduled or not but I will find out - anyone know if it is?

    Im just writing up a couple of experiences and finds from Horton and also including my thoughts and finds on Middop, very interesting stuff! i am writing it offline as its a bit long winded..see you in a bit

    im not sure if my Middop experiences are relevant to this thread??? shall I start a new one?
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  Paulus on Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:14 am

    scocker626 wrote:im not sure if my Middop experiences are relevant to this thread??? shall I start a new one?

    Sounds a good idea! spot-on
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    lowergate

    Join date : 2010-11-01
    Age : 68
    Location : CLITHEROE

    Re: Possible Roman Site in Horton Lancashire

    Post  lowergate on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:47 pm


    We looked at the Roman fort at Long Preston on Saturday - very clearly defind in field beyond east churchyard wall & the Roman road an be seen clearly over the southern wall.
    We then went on to Halton Bridge: The earthworks could be fishponds - before the Yorke family move in the land was owned by the Talbots who granted land north of the river to the Knights Hospitaler before 1400, the cross that stands on Broken Brow above the bridge is a Hospitaler cross. The earthwork that runs up from the river to the Roman road (Gregory's) may be a boundary to their lands, again c.1400. We followed the Roman road through Swinden to the railway. We then walked up to the earthwork at Swinden Moor Head - one & a half acre circular ditched and banked structure with a stream running through it with evidence of platforms on the south bank - maybe Iron Age farmstead.

    We had no time to look at the semi-circular feature beyond Castle Haugh - another day.

    Beyond the remains of the cross on Broken Brow, to the W, is 'Castle Hill' - I wonder what this could be?

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