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    Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

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    Otter36

    Join date : 2011-12-13
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Otter36 on Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:20 pm

    there are two ring ditches one through the church yard and a large one round it further down the hill
    it looks to me to be a causeway enclosure or at least what is left of one
    I do not think its defensive, so could quite well extend around the other side

    the monolith has a heel stone, but there are also other ancient stomes in the church yard other than the obvious grave markers and cysts moved there by C18th gentlemen archaeologists

    hope to further investigate


    Last edited by Otter36 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Paulus on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:11 pm

    Hi Otter -

    Lemme know wot you find there. There is an account from the 18th century (I've found no reference to in the standard archaeo-texts though) of more than one stone at Rudston. Be intriguing to hear what you locate...

    Otter36

    Join date : 2011-12-13
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Otter36 on Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:46 pm

    well for starters there is part of a ring of stones visable and these are not a slab fence

    my impression is that we are still dealing a bit with the belief that the church is older than the monolith, and that all features fit the church landscape, which of course they don't - it an absolute gem of a site and why it has not been fully investigated quite frankly escapes me
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  cropredy on Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:58 pm

    Otter36,
    Do You know what direction the gypsy race takes near this site?
    cropredy
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  cropredy on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:06 pm

    It looks as though the gypsy race alters from east/west to north/south around this site.
    http://www.pastscape.org.uk/maps.aspx?a=0&hob_id=79482
    cropredy
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    cropredy

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  cropredy on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:12 pm

    On the map link on satellite is that a market cross over the road from the church?
    cropredy

    Otter36

    Join date : 2011-12-13
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Otter36 on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:20 pm

    cropredy wrote:It looks as though the gypsy race alters from east/west to north/south around this site.
    http://www.pastscape.org.uk/maps.aspx?a=0&hob_id=79482
    cropredy

    yep that is exactly what it does and at the next change of direction at Burton Flemming the area is covered in barrows - absolutely fasinating landscape

    Otter36

    Join date : 2011-12-13
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Otter36 on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:41 pm

    cropredy wrote:On the map link on satellite is that a market cross over the road from the church?
    cropredy

    no the square based structure is the WW1 memorial

    there is the remains of a market cross base on Rudston Green, the head of which is now at Lowthorpe and scheduled
    when whole it was situated in Kilham Parva

    Otter36

    Join date : 2011-12-13
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Otter36 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:43 am

    okay - premlim field report - field trip created more questions than it answered

    the ditch does look to be defensive however if it were the chronology would be out

    On inspection the monolith and heel stone are two different types of rock - though neither thankfully are the same as the grave markers. The heel stone is however the same rock as the bronze age cysts, which were dig out of barrows and put within the grave yard in C18th. The question mark here is was the heel stone added also from elsewhere at that time

    so and this is just me

    1) we have the creation of a human made mound sim to silbury hill on the site in the neolitic

    2) they then placed the monolith into this- it stands above the ground to the same below it, so needs a substantial earthen structure to hold it in place in an area where top soil is shallow

    3) a ring bank (one of two) runs around the crown of the mound (used more recently as a path) and encloses the monolith, it does not hug the grave yard boundary but disapears under a house at one end and into the orchard at the other - its not one of the 4 curcuses, I have checked

    4) at one end of the ring bank in the church yard prior to being cut through by a lane and resuming its height and going under house is what looks like to be a dug out barrow and I say this with some conviction as its sim in appearence and damage to the other barrows dug in C18th. Unfortunately this was dig and grab archaeology and unless they found human remains or shiny grave goods they deemed that they had not found or destroyed anything and most importantly didn't write down anything Rolling Eyes

    Paulus, I would be interested in looking at your texts, just in case they did write something of use, if at all possible please. Are there any online copies?

    next summer is going to be very interesting, I'm afraid I didn't even get to the causewayed question, but at some stage I hope to

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    Paulus

    Join date : 2009-08-20
    Location : Yorkshire

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Paulus on Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:25 pm

    Hi Otter -

    Otter36 wrote:okay - premlim field report - field trip created more questions than it answered

    the ditch does look to be defensive however if it were the chronology would be out

    On inspection the monolith and heel stone are two different types of rock - though neither thankfully are the same as the grave markers. The heel stone is however the same rock as the bronze age cysts, which were dig out of barrows and put within the grave yard in C18th. The question mark here is was the heel stone added also from elsewhere at that time

    so and this is just me

    1) we have the creation of a human made mound sim to silbury hill on the site in the neolitic

    2) they then placed the monolith into this- it stands above the ground to the same below it, so needs a substantial earthen structure to hold it in place in an area where top soil is shallow

    3) a ring bank (one of two) runs around the crown of the mound (used more recently as a path) and encloses the monolith, it does not hug the grave yard boundary but disapears under a house at one end and into the orchard at the other - its not one of the 4 curcuses, I have checked

    4) at one end of the ring bank in the church yard prior to being cut through by a lane and resuming its height and going under house is what looks like to be a dug out barrow and I say this with some conviction as its sim in appearence and damage to the other barrows dug in C18th. Unfortunately this was dig and grab archaeology and unless they found human remains or shiny grave goods they deemed that they had not found or destroyed anything and most importantly didn't write down anything Rolling Eyes


    Sounds very intriguing indeed! I know Greenwell & his mates were digging into barrows around Rudston & district all those years back. And with at 4 cursus monuments there too, we've obviously lost a lot of good stuff in the region. Who's doing this research? Any chance of a brief site-profile with images?

    Otter36 wrote:Paulus, I would be interested in looking at your texts, just in case they did write something of use, if at all possible please. Are there any online copies?


    I think it's in Royston's 1873 work (19th C, not 18th like I said) Rudston. Not sure if it's on-line though. I think there was also summat in one of the early 'Gentleman's Magazine' essays - which'd take some digging out!

    Cheers (and a good New Year & all that) - Paulus Cool
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    DeadlyGeek

    Join date : 2012-01-07
    Age : 37
    Location : USA

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  DeadlyGeek on Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:08 am

    Interesting. I've never seen one before and judging from your field report, it's really fascinating.

    Do you have pictures?

    Eskdale

    Join date : 2011-06-10

    Re: Rudston Monolith - possible causeway enclosure

    Post  Eskdale on Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:30 am

    I recently visited the Rudston monolith, so I will follow your research with interest.
    In a message thread about the Devils Arrows I pointed out that the Rudston was erected on excatly the same latitude (according to the readings given on Google Earth). This seems more than a coincidence.
    But on comparing the two sites there were a number of differences-
    Rudston was erected with its broadest side facing North-East, whereas the Arrows are orientated to the south-east.
    The tops of the arrows are heavily worn by water running down, but the Rudston is not so marked, maybe the moorstone grit is harder than the millstone grit - any geologists taking this thread?

    If you are going back to the Rudston, I would be grateful if you could take some readings?
    If you have a compass can you tell me what bearing the stone faces?
    And if you have a GPS can you take a reading of the stone's coordinates, I would like to compare them with those given on Google Earth.
    Good luck with your research,
    Cliff

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