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    Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

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    Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Guest on Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:12 pm

    Cephalopods are often found fossilised in Pennine milltone grit, many are spiral in form and are more than likely the origin of most of the carved rock spirals, later enhanced by human hand, we see today. Before the mid eighteenth century the origin of fossils was generally regarded in terms of superstition and myth. Many differing accounts across different cultures explained how these fossils came to be and interesting folklore traditions developed regarding these stones. Frequently fossils were ascribed to have magical or medicinal properties.

    Cup marks may owe there origin to river-stones formed in millstone grit when the silts were laid down in tropical deltas millions of years ago.Historical period erosion led to the 'freeing' of these round stones leaving only the 'cup' impression.

    A knowledge of basic geology and ancient folklore may answer many unsolved questions. EG: Some geologists hold to the idea that the Ilkley Moor 'Swastica Stone' is nothing more than the overworked ('hand of man') imprint of a Cephalopod.

    Happy hunting!

    Rockrich

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Rockrich on Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:16 am

    lowergate wrote:Cephalopods are often found fossilised in Pennine milltone grit, many are spiral in form and are more than likely the origin of most of the carved rock spirals, later enhanced by human hand, we see today. Before the mid eighteenth century the origin of fossils was generally regarded in terms of superstition and myth. Many differing accounts across different cultures explained how these fossils came to be and interesting folklore traditions developed regarding these stones. Frequently fossils were ascribed to have magical or medicinal properties.

    Hello Lowergate, are there any spirals carved on Millstone Grit? Other than Barningham Moor, which is a very loose spiral, I'm struggling to think of any.

    [/quote]
    Cup marks may owe there origin to river-stones formed in millstone grit when the silts were laid down in tropical deltas millions of years ago.Historical period erosion led to the 'freeing' of these round stones leaving only the 'cup' impression.
    [/quote]

    I'm sure this will be the case for some marked rocks in the archaeological record, but not every one is naturally formed. On sandstone, natural bowls can also occur through a mixture of calcite / silica weakness in friable areas; rain, separated grains and wind then take over. Thats not to mention eddying stones grinding under melting glaciers.


    Rich

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    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Guest on Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:41 pm

    Very well put R. A visit to Cliff Castle Museum, Keighley and Skipton Museum may prove enlightening.


    Last edited by lowergate on Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong site)

    Rockrich

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Rockrich on Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:51 am

    [quote="lowergate"]Very well put R. A visit to Cliff Castle Museum, Keighley and Skipton Museum may prove enlightening.[quote]

    Hi Lowergate, are there any examples of carved / enhanced spirals on Millstone Grit at these museums, because I'm struggling to find electronic and paper records of them.

    rich

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    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Guest on Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:23 am

    yes

    Rockrich

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Rockrich on Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:32 am

    lowergate wrote:yes

    THanks lowergate, interesting. Do you happen to know if Boughey and Vickerman recorded them in 'Prehistoric Rock Art of the West Riding'? I can find 144: http://rockartuk.fotopic.net/p52083806.html which resides at Cliff Castle, but it has a motif classed as a cup with a curving groove rather than a spiral.

    cheers
    Rich

    edited to make sense.

    Rockrich

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Rockrich on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:12 am

    lowergate wrote:yes

    HEllo Lowergate, I think you'll find the answer is 'No' on three fronts. Neither museum has any carved spirals on display, in storage or recorded.

    So the theory you touted as almost being fact, falls down on the basis that only one example of a carved spiral on millstone grit is known. And even that doesn't resemble a cephalapod.

    On the positive side, I had a grand morning at Cliff Castle having never visited the place before.

    Guest
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    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:00 pm

    Strange? At CC did you look at the catalogue ?

    My info' came from Jim Taylor Page who works for the British Geological Survey. I have not talked with him in years, but I will look him up and get him to point us in the right direction, geological wise - glad you enjoyed CC - a gem of a place

    Best regards

    John

    Rockrich

    Join date : 2009-02-02

    Re: Spirals carved in millstone grit & cup marks

    Post  Rockrich on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:52 am

    lowergate wrote:Strange? At CC did you look at the catalogue ?

    My info' came from Jim Taylor Page who works for the British Geological Survey. I have not talked with him in years, but I will look him up and get him to point us in the right direction, geological wise - glad you enjoyed CC - a gem of a place

    Best regards

    John

    Hello John, I didn't check the catalogue, but a curator supposedly did at both museums. I've also had a chat with Keith Boughey and he's not aware of any either. If you get information to the contrary, then I'll definitely investigate further.

    Cliffe Castle was a bit of a surprise, I spent over an hour wandering round the rather wonderful geology section.

    rich

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