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Archaeology, folklore & myth of Britain's pre-christian sites & heritage: stone circles, holy wells, maypoles, tombs, archaic cosmologies and human consciousness. Everyone welcome - even Southerners!


    Ladder markings?

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    Ladder markings?

    Post  Guest on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:49 am

    Hello, and many thanks for allowing me to engage with others, in pursuit of my growing obsession with ancient rock art.
    I suspect that like many people who come to take an interest in cup and ring, my head is buzzing with quasi theoretical speculation, most of which even I know, is most likely garbage.
    HOWEVER ... Looking at the spirals and concentric circles around many cups, I am drawn toward an idea which I know I share with many, that such patterns may represent radial activity, such as that emenated by stellar bodies, not least the sun. No suprises in that, but whilst looking at some Ogham inscriptions of the pointed; or to be a little more precise and geometrically generous, semi circular variety; I began to wonder about the similarity with concentric cup and ring markings. Somewhere in my musings I remembered the 'ladder' type markings to be variously seen on some sites and wondered if the Ogham inscriptions and the ladders, denote a partial pattern or radial energy? Maybe not ... But! If you draw a cup on a piece of paper, draw some concentric rings around it, then draw two lines, not too far apart, away from the cup and through the rings... thou hast a ladder. Rub out the circles outside of the ladder lines and you have something akin to the cup and ring ladder markings. IF.... there is and juice in the idea that the the concentric circles are representative of sunlight for example, and that the ladders are a partial representation of solar rays, the direction in which the ladder points (to or from) may be associated with solar or even lunar phenomena such as soltices etc?
    Of course I don't know because I have never as yet actually lined one up with anything, but I certainly intend to. If anyone has any thoughts or even better... data, on this idea i would be most grateful to hear from them.
    In fact I will be grateful for any response, even if people only respond by telling me I'm a total loony who is completely barking up the wrong tree. I won't be offended as I am no stranger to such endeavour.
    Thanks for reading this.
    dave.
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    Re: Ladder markings?

    Post  Admin on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:16 pm

    Hi Dave -

    The notion of cup-and-ring markings denoting solar symbolism isn't new. Archaeologists and amateurs alike have suggested this at various sites - though speculating that ladder symbols represent the sun aint a common notion. For my part, I don't buy it - but that doesn't mean to say I'm right! Smile If you wanna follow your astronomical lines of enquiry a bit further though, check out Martin Brennan's book, The Stars and the Stones: an excellent work showing with considerable probability the relationship between the cup&rings and celestial activity.

    A word of caution though: try staying off the 'energy' paradigm. Our ancestors saw animism in everything, hence the remains and tales of lost lands and ways...

    Cheers - Paul

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    Re: Ladder markings?

    Post  Guest on Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:06 am

    Thanks for the pointer, I'm on it.
    If I come up with any lost lands, ancient byways through time and space, otherworld portals or the like; I'll stick them in the Fortrean section. To date, the only thing I'm sure of about ladder markings is they don't have anything to do with the ladders in nylon stockings. It's possible even I may be responsible for some of those in the days before these sturdy tights. I'm nipping off to Silsden now to look at the new found stone by the path. If I can't find any ladders I'll be happy with a marble staircase.
    Blessings
    dave sunny
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    Re: Ladder markings?

    Post  Admin on Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:40 am

    erraticdave wrote:If I come up with any lost lands, ancient byways through time and space, otherworld portals or the like; I'll stick them in the Fortrean section.

    I like it!

    erraticdave wrote:I'm nipping off to Silsden now to look at the new found stone by the path.

    Let us know if you find any other undiscovered carvings up thereabouts. I know there's gonna be a few others lurking in the grasses. It's gonna be better searching when the vegetations fallen back though; winter-time, etc. Or after a fire (we could do with some good anonymous arsonists to help the cause! Cool). Good luck!

    Cheers - Paul

    Cailleach

    Join date : 2009-02-08

    Dubious or just faint?

    Post  Cailleach on Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:03 pm

    Hello Dave,

    erraticdave wrote:I'm nipping off to Silsden now to look at the new found stone by the path. If I can't find any ladders I'll be happy with a marble staircase.
    Blessings
    dave sunny

    Is this the Pathway Stone you mean? It looks a little faint doesn't it? is is authentic or are Paul's eyes just seeing things again? tongue

    love Mary

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    Re: Ladder markings?

    Post  Guest on Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:37 am

    Hi Mary.
    Yes I found the pathways stone, and close beside it what appears to be a smaller cup marked stone. I'm no expert so I can only say that I have seen authenticated stones which are worse, and there does appear to be some symetry in the markings. Whether that will suffice I don't know? I have some pics but I have mucked up trying to add them twice. I think they are of reasonable quality, (if anyone ever gets to see them). I took a pic of a stone I found a short way along the path to the well named 'rough holden' just above the Robin Hood stone across Silsden road. The carving appears to be a depiction of a Cowboy twirling his guns. I have named it the 'Roy Rogers' stone. It's definitely not antiquarian, though I feel it tells us a great deal about the inhabitation of the Aire valley by primative humanity.
    Blessings.
    Dave.
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    More Holden carvings

    Post  Admin on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:51 pm

    erraticdave wrote:Yes I found the pathways stone, and close beside it what appears to be a smaller cup marked stone.

    How close? Can't recall another carving that close by. I reckon t' Dump Stone is probably the closest one I've found. But saying that, there's a few I've got drawings of from this area in one of mi old notebooks from my teens which I aint relocated yet. A bit frustrating, but hopefully they'll resurface one day!

    erraticdave wrote:...I have some pics but I have mucked up trying to add them twice. I think they are of reasonable quality, (if anyone ever gets to see them).

    When you reply, use the 'Host an Image' prompt at the top, upload it and copy it. At the bottom will appear the coding - between which you drop your image. I think that's how I did it. It's summat like that! I tried it several times and checked it in 'preview' before I gorrit right! Good luck. It'd be good to see what you've found.

    erraticdave wrote:I took a pic of a stone I found a short way along the path to the well named 'rough holden' just above the Robin Hood stone across Silsden road. The carving appears to be a depiction of a Cowboy twirling his guns. I have named it the 'Roy Rogers' stone.

    That n' was carved by some scouts in the last 100 years (if memory serves me right). I've got a fully drawn picture of it somewhere in one of the journals.

    atb - Paul

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