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Archaeology, folklore & myth of Britain's pre-christian sites & heritage: stone circles, holy wells, maypoles, tombs, archaic cosmologies and human consciousness. Everyone welcome - even Southerners!


    Cock Crowing Stone

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    andy_h

    Join date : 2009-04-27

    Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  andy_h on Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:46 am

    A'rite Paul,

    long time no, er... email! Good to see that you've got this together. Good work that man!

    A little while back, while out on one of my photo trips, I happened across the Cock Crowing Stone on Meltham Moor. Just wondered if you had any info on this, as it seems almost impossible to find any folklore or otherwise attached to it.

    Also, if you want to use any of my pics, Ilkley Moor and the like, feel very welcome to just rip 'em off TMA.

    Cheers,

    Andy
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    mikki

    Join date : 2009-01-29
    Age : 25
    Location : West Yorkshire

    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  mikki on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:34 pm

    Ermmm!! Somebody mention COCK?... I was told 'it is hard as a rock'.. Does it have a battery compartment? What is it's girth? Please Lemme Know.

    Cheers Mikki XXX
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    Admin
    Admin

    Join date : 2009-01-29
    Location : Everywhere

    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  Admin on Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:35 am

    Hi Andy - Good hearing from thee!

    Might sound bad of me - but I've never come across this 'ere Cock Crowing Stone. Where izzit exactly? I was going thru an old book on the folklore of Saddleworth the other day and found there were some sites in there, with fairy-lore and such likes, which evades the catalogues and archaeo-records; so I wanna venture over there in the coming months to see if there's owt left of these spots. Is the Cock Crowing Stone going anywhere close to the Saddleworth Moors direction? I wouldn't mind a wander over for a day out.

    andy_h wrote:Also, if you want to use any of my pics, Ilkley Moor and the like, feel very welcome to just rip 'em off TMA.

    Huge thanks! If I do use any of your stuff, I'll let y' know and obviously give due credits to your good self. Someday soon (he sez hopefully), folk will be able to add their own stuff on the TNA. It's possible already, but it's a bit finnicky. I'm gonna add directions on 'How To' on TNA soon enough.

    All the best - Paul

    andy_h

    Join date : 2009-04-27

    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  andy_h on Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:43 am

    Hi Paul,

    it's an upright boulder - that with a squint of the eye and active imagination may look like a cock crowing. I had heard of it before, 'cos when I found it quite by accident, I thought, 'ah, there it is'. I originally thought I'd seen it mentioned in your Old Stones of Elmet, but on checking, it wasn't in the book. Must have been Northern Earth where I'd seen it mentioned before.

    It stands by the roadside below West Nab at the top of Meltham Moor, just outside Huddersfield. It's not a million miles from Saddleworth - it's on the way out that direction.

    Here is a link to the TMA page...

    http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/74366/fieldnotes/cock_crowing_stone.html

    Nearby, in the fields below Meltham Moor are two earthworks on farm land. Worked flints have also been found at Royd Edge.

    http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/4805/royd_edge_and_oldfield_hill_earthworks_meltham.html

    At the summit of West Nab, there is what looks suspiciously like a cairn, on which the trig point stands. Being at the top of the hill and being the only collection of smaller stones anywhere near by, leads me to believe it can only be a cairn and not natural. Whether or not it is ancient, I don't know. As there are settlements of a corresponding age nearby, it's a possibility. Here's a photo of the trig point, although it's maybe not that good for picking out the features of the cairn.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyhemingway/3479777678/

    On Saddleworth Moor, there's a couple of rock formations that may interest you. The Pots and Pans Stone...

    http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/7530/pots_and_pans_stone.html

    And the Boggart Stones on the roadside nearby. There are also Raven Rocks and Dove Stones that may have an interesting past.

    http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=huddersfield&countryCode=GB#map=53.55204,-1.96033|16|4&dp=os&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:53.64528:-1.78478:14|huddersfield|Huddersfield,%20Lindley,%20West%20Yorkshire,%20England,%20HD1%202

    I believe that Alphin and Alderman's brow used to form the boarder between Lancashire and Yorkshire, and have attached folklore. Steve Sneyd wrote an interesting piece in Northern Earth a few years back. I'll see if I can dig it out.

    If you fancy a trip out that way sometime, give me a shout n' I'll drive you round. I know the area reasonably well and am always up for a day on the moors!

    Cheers,

    Andy
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    Admin
    Admin

    Join date : 2009-01-29
    Location : Everywhere

    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  Admin on Sat May 02, 2009 7:13 am

    Hi Andy -

    andy_h wrote:...it's an upright boulder - that with a squint of the eye and active imagination may look like a cock crowing. Nearby, in the fields below Meltham Moor are two earthworks on farm land. Worked flints have also been found at Royd Edge.

    Izzit possibly a quarried stone stuck up there in the last coupla hundred years? It looks a bit like it, but I s'ppose seeing it in the flesh is always best. Mikki's found some info on similar-named sites a few miles south, in Addy's Household Tales (1895: 55-6), also known as Stump John. Do you know owt about that place?

    But back to the West Nab one: do you know owt about the nearby Bellman's Castle, close to West Nab? It seems to have been a gathering place if the folk-names, etymology and dialect lore are right. Seemingly a place where info was proclaimed at cock-crowing time, which could also be a witching hour. Much lost info seems hidden up there. Once we've returned from our jaunts, it'd be good to have an amble up there in the coming weeks. I've always had the feeling that there's much hidden on those moors, away from any record books.

    All the best - Paul

    andy_h

    Join date : 2009-04-27

    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  andy_h on Sat May 02, 2009 11:52 am

    Hi Paul,

    Admin wrote:.

    Izzit possibly a quarried stone stuck up there in the last coupla hundred years? It looks a bit like it, but I s'ppose seeing it in the flesh is always best. Mikki's found some info on similar-named sites a few miles south, in Addy's Household Tales (1895: 55-6), also known as Stump John. Do you know owt about that place?[/quote]

    I guess that there is always that possibility... and there is an old quarry just over the road, so that can't be ruled out. However, the stone bears no obvious signs of quarrying that I can see and isn't out of character with the numerous other stones and glacial scatter on the slopes of West Nab. So there is also a chance that it may be natural rock that has somehow come to rest in that position. Next time I'm back there, I'll give it a closer look and see if I can find signs of weathering or quarrying.

    That's why I'm keen to see if there is any folklore attached. If it is said to spin round or amble off for a drink at cock crowing time. Although that doesn't prove anything regarding age, it may suggest that it's more than a stone from the quarry.

    Stump John sounds familiar.

    Admin wrote:.

    But back to the West Nab one: do you know owt about the nearby Bellman's Castle, close to West Nab? It seems to have been a gathering place if the folk-names, etymology and dialect lore are right. Seemingly a place where info was proclaimed at cock-crowing time, which could also be a witching hour. Much lost info seems hidden up there. Once we've returned from our jaunts, it'd be good to have an amble up there in the coming weeks. I've always had the feeling that there's much hidden on those moors, away from any record books.
    [/quote]

    Another interesting feature at the summit of West Nab is a stone with three weathered, natural cup marks in a row.

    I've not heard of Bellman's Castle and can't find anything in a quick t'internet search. If you can point me in the right direction, I'll happily check it out when I'm next there. Which probably won't be too long, as Meltham Moor and Wessenden are becoming one of my fave stomping grounds.

    Just holler when you fancy an outing up that way.

    Cheers,

    Andy

    tandy

    Join date : 2009-07-08

    Boggarts

    Post  tandy on Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:34 am

    Is there a truth in the boggart and why are the wain stones called far and near, what is the reason for this?
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    Admin
    Admin

    Join date : 2009-01-29
    Location : Everywhere

    Boggarts & Wains

    Post  Admin on Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:50 pm

    Hi Tandy!

    tandy wrote:Is there a truth in the boggart

    Naathen - not sure about that one! I'll peruse mi library & get back to y' with that one.

    tandy wrote:...and why are the wain stones called far and near, what is the reason for this?

    Errrrmmmm.....& I'm gonna have to get back to you on that one aswell! Embarassed Lemme see what I can find this weekend!

    All the best - Paul

    tandy

    Join date : 2009-07-08

    Treck the boggart

    Post  tandy on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:24 pm

    I am pleading for an able bodied person to treck from Diggle Rifle range down the COTTON FAMINE ROAD. Down to the Boggart and tell me if the Lone Tree lives still. I cannot see it now as do not walk so well. Could Andy you take pictures of this route I had so well in times past?

    When could you do this? Arrow
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    Admin
    Admin

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    Re: Cock Crowing Stone

    Post  Admin on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:26 pm

    Hi again Tandy!

    tandy wrote:...why are the wain stones called far and near, what is the reason for this?

    According to the place-name chaps, the Near & Far Wain Stones derive from the old English word, waegn, waen, being "a wagon, a cart." Usually in place-names this denotes the proximity of a ford, road, for the passage of a wagon or cart. I've had a look at the 6-inch-to-the-mile 1850 OS-map and although there's the remnants of a small stream just west of the Near Wain Stones, there's nowt showing a ford. There's the old path crossing the stream nearer the Near Wains, which is mebbe where an old ford could once be found a few centuries back.

    As for the old boggarts though, their stories presently remain hidden. Is there owt in any Saddleworth antiquities books about 'em? And do you know owt about the strangely-named Catlowe Stones a few hundred yards further along the edge of the road into Yorkshire? Or what about the Fairy Holes, beneath Pots & Pans?

    I'm gonna be in Scotland later this week & won;t be back for a fortnight, but we're gonna go roughing-it on the moors when we get back for a couple of nites. I'll have a wander round and see if I can find your old tree.

    All the best - Paul

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